Thoughts on how to deal with playerkillers in Open

[uvelius]

Hello Commanders,

many of us have turned to Mobius because the either have experienced "griefing" or "ganking" or are not keen to get that experience. Also, these forums here are quite a very bit more civilized than the official ones (thanks Commanders!).
Watch this video (from 1:42 or so) to get an idea:
https://youtu.be/XblE7UQf0Og

Therefore, I would like to collect some thoughts on the topic, which we thankfully dont have to address in Mobius yet that turns up every day in Open. So on a theoretical, factual basis without further emotions.
Aside from a broken punishment/security system, how to handle the problem?

I for myself thought that basically, those killers could even offer an opportunity -- to gather convoys with proper escort wings, and escorts that even protect popular sites. While this would not address the Suicide Speed Eagle problem, it might even add to the immersion and gameplay at popular sites.
BUT there are several problems:
1.) Instancing. This might be a killer by itself.
2.) We dont have in-game convoy gathering mechanics aside from Wings. Yet it would be fascinating: Just look who is online, pick your role (explorer/trader or escort or whatever) and join.
3.) Of course, being an escort wouldnt give much in terms of gameplay since waiting is , well ... not fun. This discloses a game-inherent problem: Fights are too short to call others for help. If there is no combat vessel already present, a fighter could just pick up the remnants.


So ... no solution out there? I mean, besides Mobius, which is a *very very good* solution in my view (oh I enjoyed the Ruins with you!)

[Relix Typhon]

Until they cant access systems and/or their insurance cost rise astronomically they wont stop.
It's pointless trying to reason with them or understand them. They'e probably "Beta" humans in real life and this is how they can not be victims.
I was lucky it never happend to me in open (only play in Mobius now) but if it did you can bet my ethernet cable would be unplugged real quick!

[Falcon_D]

Well. I have experienced this in Mobius. Sometime ago.
The main problem is as I see it:
1. There is no pure PvE mode or PvE flag. So unwanted PvP is always going to happen and it is always going to be a problem.
2. ED is a PvE game where you can shoot each other. This is a major problem. The game pretty much centers around PvE but we can shoot each other. Therefore, for people who are looking for a PvP experience there really is nothing of consequence offered to them. So some resort to being the murdering types, while others tend to leave or setup their own groups and go at it. There is no gain to PvP in this game, which seems to leave gankers and griefers to play here. Others will fight in PvP because they believe in the Dangerous part of the game and are enamoured with Elite to keep playing in Open. While some others want to play out the role of Alpha male so they play in Open.

This kind of thing will continue to happen until FDev recognises the different needs of the PvE player and a PvP player. And recognises the difference between Player and NPC. No amount of convoluted crime and punishment system is going to help.

I don't know why but it always seems to me that the culture of FDev, ED and the player base seems to be one of trying to implement complex band-aids to a problem instead of trying to solve the root cause. Fix the leaky roof damnit. Stop putting tarps and tents over the holes. By the way, just a question, is this the British way of doing things? I'm not British (although we are a former colony and we pretty much changed most things once the Brits left.)

Have fun, fly safe. o7

[TorTorden]

I know it's the snarky, obvious option.
But don't log into open.

[Pembroke]

just ignore open, it is pointless to even try there.

[uvelius]

Treat this as a theoretical discussion about other people's problems

On topic, an idea came up to me which sounds as simple as straightforward, at least for teh Mailslot Griefer type:
It shouldnt be a problem to detect when the same CMDR blows himself up repeatedly, especially in a small ship, by taking other players with him. That alone should suffice to detect griefing, shouldn't it?
I mean, which normal Eagle of fighter crashes ten times in a single hour while exciting the same populated mailslot?

So, what am I missing there?

[Loriath]

Here's an Idea....

Don't play in Open. Play in a Private Group or Solo. Problem solved.

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

[Roger Wilco Jr]

Not playing in open is a band-aid approach. The ideal solution is to have FD fix the game so we can all play together.

I was going to post a similar thread, but I'll just tag it on here. I was going to ask you to share your personal greifer experiences and what you think needs to be done to fix those specific issues. I got griefed more times than I can remember, but that was back in the beta before release. The only ones I faintly remember were the last 3, after the last wipe and before release. I really should have cleared my save because it really annoyed me to see those 3 insurance claims.

Kills 1 & 2 were interdictions (or maybe just ambushes) and I was destroyed very quickly. I can't remember if they said anything, but I tried firing back with my stock pulses that really didn't do anything against A-rated Cobras and Pythons. About the only thing I can see to do here is to make it take much longer to destroy a ship that would give cops and other commanders enough time to respond and save your ass. Of course, your emergency signal may draw more psychos, but hopefully they would be outnumbered by the good guys.

Kill 3 was basically the same. I was visiting a RES to see the asteroids and a Viper blew me away - I don't think I even got a shot off. There should have been cops in the area, but they didn't have the time to respond even if the eventually would have.

In another thread I mentioned an ironman mode. Licensed pilots would get escape pods and have insurance claims, but wanted criminal pilots would lose there licenses and escape pods. Combine that with a lot tougher cops and these griefers get to start over in a Sidey instead of hopping back into their A-rated FDL and losing a few percent of their net wealth.


It hasn't happened to me, but I've read about holier-than-thou asshats (no offense to the A-Team) that ram speeders near stations. First of all, raise the damn speed limits. Other than that, I assume the asshats are speeding too, or boosting, so the station should see that and ignore it. If they are going slow and just gently thrusting into the path of the speeding ship, then I guess FD would need to look for patterns of repetition (low hull and hit by speeder near any station). It may happen once on accident, but not 5 times. Of course, people shouldn't be boosting out of stations either. The station should look down on that and issue fines or even block access if you are really reckless (patterns again).


As for what happened in the video, I guess you can't expect cops out in deep space. But making it much harder to kill other (clean) players so they have a chance to get away, along with the attackers losing their licenses and escape pods, should make them think 10 times about griefing.

[Pembroke]

my griefing experiences were more around my initial move to Elite from EVE, came in expecting a PVE game and at first, thought I was sorely mistaken when within the first 15 minutes of gameplay, I was taken down by a player in a cobra, and a day after that, was blown away in a hauler by a player conda with an attitude problem just barely out of the no fire zone of Lave. I don't know what to do about them, or how to fix the problem, but it is a problem, and thats why I don't play on open.

[Mikisew01]

Mobius has its uses, and I am all for its existence. Just as much as a closed Minecraft server provides a particular game experience that is desired, so does Mobius. To that I say GREAT WORK MOBIUS.

I prefer the risk of open play, which obviously provides quite a bit more risk for player-player confrontations that end badly. I was initially sold on running with something like The Code and do the piracy, but I have come to realize that what the community needs is more effort placed on how to make the other trades function in the environment of this (one with PC pirates and maniacs). I am not talking about "Frontier please fix all our problems and get rid of those naughty griefers". I am talking about community based actions that result in a better experience. When in WWI and II the threat of U-Boats took an incredible toll on shipping and day to day activity on the seas, techniques and tactics were taken to make it more viable. I am not suggesting that 1940s techniques are perfect for 2016 video games, but their lessons on innovation and adaptation can help open play.

I will post more on this once I am at a better computer, but I do appreciate the consensus that things should change. I believe that the change will be with us, not the game (at least we can't count on it coming from there.)