No off-line mode

[Deyn]

That lukozer guy's video had nothing to really do with elite dangerous, all he did was sit in the hanger and bitch and moan about how anyone who likes FD or backs their decision are brown-nosers and yes men, and how he feels slighted. I can't see how anyone would actually subscribe to him seeing how other than Elite:Dangerous, the games he plays are 10-20 years old on his channel.

Honestly, I didn't see anywhere on their site, store or even the kickstarter where they promised offline play. I can understand why people would be mad about it, I know a lot of people who played the older games of elite liked that they didn't need to be connected to the internet to play, but if you think about it, in this day and age, most if not all computers are connected to the internet. It's been stated that you can play solo mode with a 10kb/s connection, granted you'd probably have better, which is very minimal when you think about how much bandwidth most modern games use.

I know for me I'll be spending my time in the group section, That's why I joined the group in the first place to play with like minded people who prefer PvE above all, so it doesn't affect me that they're requiring an internet connection to play. As long as they implement some more multiplayer options, like grouping/partying/wings etc, I'll be happy with how the game is right now. The trading is pretty decent, I feel like it would be nice to be able to check prices in game, but for the most part you can follow what ports are importing and exporting and trade that way, the missions are working fine, at least courier and trade missions are (I haven't tried any of the other ones yet), mining could use a bit of TLC, same with exploration, but for the most part I'm content with how they're implemented, and anyone who's tried combat can tell you that it's a very solid part of the game. I see nothing wrong with it, although maybe more weapon types would be nice.

Just look into the thread about offline mode. You will find more than one reference linked to their Kickstarter "promises" and other links to reddit etc. where David Braben and Michael Brookes, personally stated things like "you won't need a server connection", "will have a limited single player mode that can be played offline" etc. even weeks before the newsletter they answered questions about offline singleplayer In the affirmative... and next time you state something, it might be worth to try a bit of Google search or forum research first.

[Cait Kryos]

Just look into the thread about offline mode. You will find more than one reference linked to their Kickstarter "promises" and other links to reddit etc. where David Braben and Michael Brookes, personally stated things like "you won't need a server connection", "will have a limited single player mode that can be played offline" etc. even weeks before the newsletter they answered questions about offline singleplayer In the affirmative... and next time you state something, it might be worth to try a bit of Google search or forum research first.

I remember that in that thread, that almost complete waste of bandwidth (given that every salient argument had been made within about two pages and everything else was rehashing), no-one seemed to reach agreement on what constituted a promise, whether the offline thing had been part of the Kickstarter in the first place, and whether a statement of intent made in a Kickstarter represented a contractual undertaking warranting a refund if not met.

And no, I'm not being a brown-noser or a yes-woman. I'm pretty cheesed off about the dropping of offline, and I get cheesed off all over again every time my ropey connection kicks me off the game (which happens frequently: "I can play over a crappy connection on the train", my... arm).

And it's certainly hard to defend the way the announcement was made in any case.

But what I would say is that that thread isn't a reliable source of anything save vitriol. Like most Internet debates - especially where gaming is involved - it's mostly opinion stated as fact, misinterpretations, exaggerations and amateur dramatics.

[Deyn]

The "source" is not the thread, but the original statement of two official Frontier representatives.
UK trading standards and banks currently revoking payments etc. seem to share the view that these "statements" depict a major feature of the product... so "promise" might be incorrect. A missing functionality/product capability in legal terms is more accurate.

Pibbles is coordinating a larger group of unsatisfied customers and it looks like Frontier is driving them into legal actions. I guess a judge will quickly clarify if Frontier's idea of "you-bought-a-beta-access" can hold up to EU consumer law.
Looking at other such cases, that doesn't look good for Frontier.

...even the Terms & conditions stating "you can not sell your game license" is in violation if European Court of justice ruling...

[Commiekaze]

I love these lawsuits.

[Cait Kryos]

The "source" is not the thread, but the original statement of two official Frontier representatives.
UK trading standards and banks currently revoking payments etc. seem to share the view that these "statements" depict a major feature of the product... so "promise" might be incorrect. A missing functionality/product capability in legal terms is more accurate.

Pibbles is coordinating a larger group of unsatisfied customers and it looks like Frontier is driving them into legal actions. I guess a judge will quickly clarify if Frontier's idea of "you-bought-a-beta-access" can hold up to EU consumer law.
Looking at other such cases, that doesn't look good for Frontier.

...even the Terms & conditions stating "you can not sell your game license" is in violation if European Court of justice ruling...

Well, I'm no lawyer. But I'm sure if we all try hard enough we can make sure Frontier are driven out of business and then we'll all have won a great victory.

As for "can't sell your game licence", is this going to be the day when gamers finally wake up to the ridiculous, arbitrary and high-handed system of EULAs we've all been tacitly complying with since the days of Frogger?

[Commiekaze]

Sadly, it is not a matter of "trying hard enough."

Based on the kickstarter terms of use, you can take legal action. However, regardless of whether you chose to launch a class action suit or a small claims matter (or whatever a minor civil legal proceeding is called in your country of origin), you will lose. even if you win the case, but the amount of money, time and resources you will spend on this will be considerably higher than the $150 dollars you pre-ordered for. And that is IF you win.

I can understand trying to "sue" out of principal, but you would only be hurting yourself. In the end, all that will happen is that a settlement will be reached and no one will "win". You also gotta take into consideration that one legal representative (or a team) will handle ALL these cases for Frontier and will therefore use the same defenses, evidence, etc. They will safe money that way, especially if they poses legal counsel within their company. Something like this will not put Frontier out of business simply because there is not enough of you. I bet what they made in skin sales since the store launched would break them even with legal fees.

[Deyn]

That's If you do it wrong. People simply initiate a chargeback of their payment through the bank/debit card provider or PayPal.
Now Frontier has to pay the chargeback fee and can open a legal case to get the money back, if they are sure to win... good luck!

P.S. this is what is happening at the moment by the way...
As some other guys working in finance stated a side effect will be when enough chargeback claims cumulate it willl block any future credit card payments until clarification (and it seems not to be a high number).

[Deyn]

Oh, by the way: Frontier themselves argue they need to decide on a case by case basis... even if one lawyer picks up the job, they take the risk for every individual case?

[Commiekaze]

Every company is different. But most either have a legal department or refer their legal matters to one legal firm who splits it between their employees. They would likely still give the company a competitive rate for more work.

Keep in mind, I can't possibly imagine frontier not consulting someone or obtaining some legal advice before making this announcement. But hey, it's possible. There is no "risk " for a lawyer. The firm takes a retainer from a company and says they will take care of it. They go to court, settle most of these without a trial, and life goes on.

Go seek legal advice. I'm sure someone will tell you to try. But you will pay for it. Because legal services are a lot more expensive than standard (and sometimes even the biggest) kickstarter pledges.

[Combiseries]

IMHO

I think you should just drop it. No disrespect.

Its a great game, offline or no.

Live with it.