TorTorden wrote:Sure there are a lot of reasons to not like win 10.
But many of the DX features VR rely on are at best partially supported in win 8 and not supported at all in win 7.
That's why I finally moved to Win10, Win8 was required for the Oculus Touch.
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I also found out any Win7/8 key I've tried (OEM, Retail, even old TechNet) works for Win10 installed clean, at least if you're using native uEFI/Storage boot, and GUI Partition Table (GPT), so it can 'convert' the key into a Win10 and burn it into the uEFI firmware. So I've done this for all my systems so I don't need the keys if I re-install.
But it doesn't work if the system boots via legacy Storage CSM support, aka BIOS/Int13h Disk Services mode, where the disk is formatted in a MBR Partition Table, instead of GPT.
TorTorden wrote:In short, sure win 10 isn't the most appealing OS, but I'd rather use that than 7.
They are really all the same OS -- NT version 6 -- despite Microsoft artificially bumping the tech number to 10, it's really NT 6.4.
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It's still the same NT 6.0 (Vista) based core. NT 6.1 (7) improved NT 5.x compatibility over NT 6.0 (Vista), just like NT 5.1 (XP) improved DOS 7 / Win 4.x (95/98) compatibility over NT 5.0 (2000).
TorTorden wrote:Dodgy USB controllers won't be magically fixed just because using an older OS.
Well, that's not always true. Microsoft can not only deprecate support, but some vendors don't update their drivers. But that's another story. Most of the time I can 'forge' NT10 in the INF, and get it to load, when a vendor doesn't update for Windows 10.
TorTorden wrote:In my experience, the z97 generation is just barely fully supporting VR, moving to a newer chipsset and DDR4 was the real fix, still not iron clad though, but in essence much more stable.
Sorry, gotta call BS on that. I'm running on a 4 year-old Z97 + i-4790K platform. Also, despite popular opinion, until only recently, DDR4 has no faster response time than DDR3.
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Some of the first generation DDR4 modules were no faster, and some had worse timing than DDR3, before Samsung, TSMC and others improved their yields on DDR4. DRAM cells are DRAM cells, and the burst, synchronous clock -- in end-consumer/single-user applications -- doesn't make much difference, especially when DDR3 and DDR4 used the same, base DRAM cell design. Response time is far, far more important, so the timing far more impacting, hence the choice of the DRAM cell in use.
It's only in the last 12-18 months that newer DDR4 designs have finally overtaken DDR3. because no one has bothered to update the newer DRAM cells on their fab's DDR3 lines. But that's also why low-latency spec DDR4 modules cost significantly more.
TorTorden wrote:Although as a second note. USB extension cables ARE THE BANE of stable tracking.
Yes, EHCI (USB 2.0) and XHCI (USB 3.0) have specific limitations on length, and they can take issues with an added dongle/connector. Most people not only exceed them, but use and old OHCI (USB 1.1) spec extension cable with EHCI (USB 2.0), or an EHCI (USB 2.0) spec extension cable with XHCI (USB 3.0). It's very, very important to get a spec rated cable because of how the wiring is done, any twist or shielding, etc...
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In general, USB is the ultimate piss-poor design, and many of us in the IEEE totally slammed Intel when they refused to adopt FireWire in their chipsets for anything faster than 1.2Mbps (that's 0.12MBps in 10:8 encoding). The rest is history ... USB was pushed into where it wasn't good. Everything we predicted has come true, sadly for consumers.
I mean, make no mistake, Intel and Microsoft were slammed by the entire engineering community when they released USB. That's why products took three (3) years before coming on the market. It was literally the dumbest of the dumb buses. Most vendors had to adopt command and other logic from other support, even FireWire, but it was totally non-standardized.
That's why most people only use one (1) device on a USB bus, unless it's a simple character device like a Keyboard or Mouse. Because it's literally a veggie, intelligence-wise, it's always an issue when more than one (1) vendor has code controlling any communication on the same bus.
Roger Wilco Jr wrote:Well, I bit the bullet and installed Win 7 a few weeks ago. My first day playing I went 12 hours - and then had a disconnect. After installing the Rift, I now generally get a disconnect or two within the first several minutes of playing, but then can go hours w/o any more problems. And the disconnects are different. Rather than constantly connecting and disconnecting, making the game completely unplayable, now they are hard disconnects that require a reboot.
All Windows platforms are horrendous Plug'n Play platforms, but I've found Windows 10 to over-query/over-reset too much, causing most of the issues I've had. But luckily I rarely have them with my X-56 on the EHCI (USB 2.0) ports. Although they really do screw up on XHCI (USB 3.0) ports.
Roger Wilco Jr wrote:So it's a little bit of a hassle, but so much better and I can deal with a reboot or two. I don't know why I didn't do it a year and a half ago, other than I thought I'd need Win10 or DX12 or whatever for VR. But nothing I play now or plan on playing in the near future need any of that. And in a couple years, when there may be new VR hardware and software that will require updating my operating system, I'll have an ancient computer and be ready to upgrade everything at that time.
And now I finally get to play ED again, and starting over, and after so long, it's like learning it all over again.
I haven't played since January. I really need to change that, but ... alas ... I've been too slammed with all sorts of professional duties.