Motivation and Content in Elite: Dangerous

[charlie2alpha]

Greeting commanders,

As I was browsing the official forums, this thread came to my attention. Basically he's linking to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOsK8gZ1vc
I watched it and I found that he's making some very good points. I know some people here like to RP, or have their own kind of fun with their buddies etc but not everyone likes to RP and not everyone has buddies in game to have that kind of fun. So what remain in the end are the game mechanics themselves and they indeed lack cohesion.

Another issue is the bugs plaguing the game ever since horrizons came to be. Someone told me yesterday "but it is almost a new game, of course it will have bugs". I totally disagree, horizons added content (and will add more) on top of the existing product "Elite: Dangerous" (note that I intentionally call it "product") but the owners of the original product still got affected by the server problems and many of the CTD issues. They took an almost stable game and turned it to a beta even for those who never cared for the expansion. There are the usual excuses "because of the game architecture" and "that's how development is" etc etc but I am not the game developer, I am the consumer and I just don't care. Want to do a beta, do it in a closed group. Some people again will tell me "they already did". Yes, there was the early access beta program which is good. But it should have stayed that way for a couple of months at least, what we have now is an extended beta that was rushed out to make the holiday sales for marketing and financial reasons.

And I wouldn't care if the new code didn't affect the players of the original E: D, but it does as the majority of the changes are server side. At they are honest enough to sell Horizon as "early access" on Steam. Still, my objection is that all those changes affect the original client too. For example, I was doing some trading with a couple of others yesterday and we have several disconnections and crashes. All of them server issues.

Going back to the actual subject of the video and the discussion on the FD forums, I am playing since late November now, not so long as others. Yet I already started to have motivation issues. Reaching Elite, trying to rank for the Empire or Federation, it's all boring grind to me. Is this DIablo III, or World of Warcraft? In those games you have to keep grinding to raise your level and obtain better equipment. I played especially Diablo III a lot, and have gotten completely bored of it. Endless fights without meaning at all. It started feeling like I was an automaton repeating the exact same thing. Well, I got news, that's most people's work environment! We don't need in the "game".

I think the guy in the video is right in many of his points. And maybe I'm just having a bad day. But very often lately, I fail to see and depth in the game. I am close to the Elite Trade rank. Then what? Endless combat for the other rank. Then going to explore star systems, one after another for the Explorer rank. What's left? Power Play is mostly a joke, get a few merits per week to have a small benefit, there's no other effect in game. No large scale war conflicts or anything other.

Perhaps in the end it all comes down to money. P2P architecture was selected to avoid expensive servers. So the game is cheap, but with all the weaknesses that brings. I know FD will add content throughout the year, but they also need to improve at least the consistency issues, NPCs need to be more realistic to begin with.

I will end my morning rant here. Feel free to add your thoughts and ideas. In the end, it's just a game and if it stops being entertaining there's a problem either with the game, or the player.

[Cmdr Ant Kingsmill]

Two things you need for ED... patience and imagination. But there are other things you can do in the game...

[Avago-Earo]

Two things you need for ED... patience and imagination. But there are other things you can do in the game...

Whilst that is true to some degree, after all we aren't in space, I agree with the points made in the video. I don't want to have to imagine it's not random spawning as well as I don't want to have to imagine it's all connected somehow. I'm aware there are limitations to making a game of this scale and have no idea how fixing some of the issues raised in the video could be implemented. The instancing mechanic suggests to me it would be difficult, but considering David Braben (Okay Ian Bell was the Maths Man in the partnership)* was doing Procedural Generation back in the 1980's, and he probably picked his team for ED well, it's probably not impossible.

Luckily this isn't the official Forum, as I've seen these discussions devolve into 'troll' vs 'fanboi' toxicity. I personally think it's worth discussing.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rapa3VfUWfs

[Cmdr Ant Kingsmill]

I largely agree with your comments AE (and have read most of them before). Powerplay does feel largely pointless and nothing that couldn't really have been implemented by developing the minor factions and how they interact in the Galaxy Map on a larger scale. I'm also as frustrated as anyone with the non-fixed / re-occurring bugs. The new bugs I can stomach a bit more, but I do sympathise to some degree with your comments about ED users being on the end of Horizons bugs. I think with the instancing maybe there's some advantages... imagine how crowded the Barnicles would be if we were all in there together? And aren't private groups really just another instance? That gives us the Mobius PVE group.

[TorTorden]

I been saying it feels like multiple mini games stuck together on the framework of the ship flight design and galaxy sim since may.
And absolutely they are way past the point of where they should feature lock for six months and solely focus on bug fixing and as put in the video, COHESION

[Walter]

So many things to agree with - and yet I keep playing.

Is this what addiction feels like?

[Avago-Earo]

I largely agree with your comments AE (and have read most of them before). Powerplay does feel largely pointless and nothing that couldn't really have been implemented by developing the minor factions and how they interact in the Galaxy Map on a larger scale. I'm also as frustrated as anyone with the non-fixed / re-occurring bugs. The new bugs I can stomach a bit more, but I do sympathise to some degree with your comments about ED users being on the end of Horizons bugs. I think with the instancing maybe there's some advantages... imagine how crowded the Barnicles would be if we were all in there together? And aren't private groups really just another instance? That gives us the Mobius PVE group.

Yeah that's true. I haven't got a problem with instancing per se. It seems the logical way to do it (from reading about P2P and not understanding most of it ). I think it's the challenge of making the connections mentioned in the video using the model Frontier have chosen that presents many (it seems) of us to feel a disconnect with the game.

Hang on, you put AE. I think you're replying to the OP??? from your comments

[alphaalif]

I agree with everything he said. The only reason I'm still in ED is to accomplish my own target is to make enough money to buy a good ship. Being said, I would love to be part of the change but i guess that's a lot to ask.

Powerplay, what can i say about Powerplay? There's more CMDRS hating it then loving it.

Exploring would be great if it has a bigger payout and as explained in the video, all u do is get a great screenshot of the planet and get a shitty payout.

Mining, no idea what's need to change cause personally I'm not into mining at all but to the CMDRS that loves mining, i hope that their effort could change the minerals in the commodities market. And maybe reward more for mining, cause honestly it's not automatic like EVE Online where you can just leave your ship to mine or let the drones do it for you.

I love Elite Dangerous honestly, the fact that they research and using science to make the game makes me see the effort. But I've seen but yet to play Star Citizen. It's still in Alpha stages but you can tell it will be awesome if releases. Yes, they might use more imagination more than science but c'mon, without imagination, Star Wars wouldn't have episode 7.

All i want is to see more stuff in space, you know, comets, pulsars, colliding/collided planets. Just for some candy for the eyes. The rest, i guess the video have spoken so i am just hoping they'll listen to the CMDRS that spend countless of hours in the game than just FD listening to themselves.


Sent from Vulture Comms

[Primeh]

Ok, i've watched the first 7 minutes and decided to comment. I will watch the rest but I dont need to as the guy is on point.

I think its safe to say that if you have put a substantial amount of hours into ED, that his opinions on the game are everybody elses.

People say lack of content, but that not true. Its as he quite rightly puts it, and folks should use the term when addressing FD from now on.
Dont say content, because there is plenty. More content was added with Horizons, but its not fixing that underlying problem. Its Cohesion, or as i've always said to friends in discussions about ED. Theres no 'life' to the game. Nothing really matters. Everything is.. well as Tor rightly put, everything is its own little mini-game that has no real effect on the other.

I get they are still building this game, and they have to 'sell' upcoming features. I'd honestly happily forego multi-crew ships, and ship launched fighters and crafting. If they would only spend the next 11 months hammering out some life into the game. Add variation, add comets, pulsars, starship junkyards, colliding planets/stars. Stations that are truly different and not a copy/paste with a couple of extra pieces on.

But above all. Take a step back, fix and build a proper BGS that works and brings everything together.....

If.... only...

[Black Rose]

Combat:

Since the game's primary focus is that activity.

The NPC AI is totally bizarre. My partner and I team up allot to BH and do assassination missions. He is in an A modded Federal Assault ship or in his Python and I am in my trusty Vulture. He is a Dangerous rating and I am Master. He gets an assassination and the minimum combat rating to do the mission is, Dangerous. We go off looking for the guy expecting this big fight and the target is in an Eagle! He is dead before our FSDs are cooled down. I then get a mission to kill an NPC and the minimum rating was Mostly Harmless. I take off to solo it and the target is in an Anaconda with two Vulture escorts and they are all using cannons! I barely got away. My partner joined me and we found the NPC again and interdicted. At the end the of the battle I was at 70% hull and my partner was at 50% hull due to tanking the 'Conda while I took out the escorts.

Now please tell me how a "mostly harmless" rating IE a newer player would handle that? Also when I run missions in my cargo ship even if I have 1 ton of poop I get harassed endlessly by interdictions and many of them right at the outposts I am trying to dock at. But after all my missions are done and I have 110 tons of platinum I can park right next to a pirate at a nav beacon and we can discuss the price of poop on the Jita market.

So, the combat is bizarre with no apparent form or logic it is 100% random and that is its weakness.

Power Play:

Now this I enjoy but it to is totally random. Case in point Levigney Duval is my patron leader for the empire. Last cycle she had total control of the one system she was preparing. Something like 500% control with no opposition. Every planet that was won in the previous cycle was all at their trigger to maintain expansion. 90% of her control planets were fortified and she was in power position 4. My partner and I racked up over 5000 undermining merits in systems that were fighting her and I made so many fortification trips to the Empire HQ that I can't even recall. Lets say 500 tons at 25 tons per trip. That's 12 jumps round trip per 25 tons. So the new cycle starts and she is now in power position 8, she has a CC shortage and her prep planet goes into turmoil and her whole structure appears to be falling apart. How did this happen?

Also ranks are totally ridiculous. Rank 1 is automatic. Rank 2 is 100 merits...piece of cake. Rank 3 is 750 merits...ok so 20 min killing transports. Rank 4 is 1500 merits...ok so an hour or so killing transports per day for 3 days actually fun. Rank 4 10,000 Merits???? Then each week 50% of earned merits are lost? The effort VS reward is way out of wack.

Mining:

With no crafting in ED ( I know there is some in Horizons ) and no player market of any sort, the income per hour for mining is just not there. Sure it can be relaxing for some if they have a good sized cargo bay and like to do multiple runs but other than that it has no value given the effort that goes into it.

Trading:

Yes I trade here and there when doing missions and I've made about 11.5 million trading but I haven't really gotten into doing the trade route thing and once again with no player market or crafting the trading is just something to do with no goal to me.

Exploration:

This is something I do while I am missioning in my Asp. Lets see I'll map this whole system that I just discovered 37 objects on my recent "honk" Ok 13 asteroid belts...worth nothing on an initial scan but on a detailed scan...? Nothing waste of time and filtered out on my #1 panel. Moons and planets and suns ....ok lets see 450,000 lights from arrival ( more than half of the kraudji system) worth? Ohhhh WOW 13,000 credits for the whole system and it only took me an hour. At this rate I will be filthy rich in; 40 years?

Yes I know the starter players got their name on an object they discovered and that is pretty cool, but what do we get? What is there to discover aside from something that is currently not on my map for that system because that is all I am doing, adding items to a map that is partially not titled.

So after all this "WTF" am I doing here rant, I can't help not logging in every day and doing it over and over again. Been playing "hard core" as opposed to casual for about 2 months and passed the 500 hour mark on my Steam "hours played" log